按：Bellroy 是很多少数派读者熟悉的品牌。少数派在过去和 Bellroy 开展过多次合作，在少数派会员社区的讨论中，Bellroy 的产品也经常成为各种收纳场景下的推荐对象。本期《装了啥》中，我们很高兴邀请到 Bellroy 首席设计师、现居澳洲的 James Jeffery，请他与我们分享自己的日常装备、工作心得与设计思考。本次访谈以邮件问答方式进行，我们对答复仅做翻译和编校，与原文一并附上。
Could you please tell us a little bit about yourself?
请向少数派读者介绍一下自己。
I am James Jeffery, an Australian industrial designer who has been working with Bellroy for nearly 9 years. During that time the brand has grown from focusing on wallets to our current expansive range of carry items.
我是 James Jeffery，是来自澳洲的一名工业设计师，在 Bellroy 工作快九年了，也见证了这个品牌从专精于钱包设计拓展到泛包具产品线。
While I am in Australia now, I spent 10 years abroad, 3 living in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, and 7 years in London. My time abroad let me explore my design sense and gave me a global perspective. Relocating in Australia has been an amazing journey as I’ve grown with Bellroy, grown my family and definitely grown my surfing abilities.
搬回澳洲之前，我在海外度过了十年：前三年在越南胡志明市，后七年在英国伦敦。旅居的那段时光让我可以探索多元设计，也进一步拓宽了我的眼界。搬回澳洲之后的体验也很充实，我不仅在和 Bellroy 一起成长，迎接了新的家庭成员，冲浪技术也日益见长。
What are the most frequently used tools, such as electronic devices, mobile apps etc., in your work and life? On what occasions or for what reasons do you typically use them?
你在工作和生活中最常用哪些设备和应用？使用这些工具的场景和目的都是什么？
My MacBook Pro is very much my main tool. I am an apple fanboy… iPhone, iPad, Mac and Airpods Pro all being used daily. My iPad is for consumption, my iPhone is for communication and my Mac is for work. The AirPods bridge between them all.
MacBook Pro 是我的主要工具。我是果粉，每天都将 iPad 用于内容消费、iPhone 用于通讯、Mac 用来干活，AirPods 则是它们之间的「桥梁」。
My setup layout is to make sure my Mac is set up with an apple bluetooth keyboard, apple external trackpad and Steel Series Rival 3 mouse. I have my mouse set up with personalised tracking profiles and scripts, a truly responsive mouse is super important and key to my setup. I also create custom shortcut key sets across my system.
我的设备组合里一定要有苹果的妙控键盘、妙控板和 Steel Series Rival 3 鼠标。这个鼠标设置了自定义的追踪速度和和脚本，因为我非常看重鼠标的灵敏响应。我还在各台设备上设置了自定义快捷键。
Could you please tell us a little more about your software setup on your phone? Which programs or apps do you use most regularly, or find the most helpful or interesting, for work and leisure?
能多聊聊你装的软件吗？你最常用、觉得有助工作或适合用来休闲的应用都有哪些？
I actually have a very vanilla phone set up. My essential apps are still Instagram, Google maps and reddit.
我的手机设置其实非常乏味，必备应用就是 Instagram、谷歌地图和 Reddit。
I did a test about 3 years ago where I decided to not have a phone for 3 months, just to see what would happen. It was actually fine, most of the time… every once and a while I would have an emergency where I needed to let someone know I was running late but on the whole it was quite positive. After this I decided to uninstall many apps from my phone and to reduce my time to under an hour per day. It is not easy but it is possible.
大约三年前，我做过一个「三个月不用手机」的实验，只是为了试试会发生什么，结果……其实不用也没什么。虽然偶尔会遇到「紧急情况」——比如要通知朋友我快迟到了的时候——但总体体验非常正面。从此以后，我就决定从手机上卸掉许多应用，而且每天使用不超过一个小时。这并不容易，但却是能做到的。
On my Mac I use Discord for Midjourney and am heavily skilled in the Adobe suite and Google apps.
在 Mac 上，我为了 Midjourney 会用 Discord，Adobe 和 Google 全家桶用的也很溜。
Media consumption (formerly TV) is very much iPad based, this is the classic youtube and spotify combinations for podcasts and vlogs.
媒体消费（就是以前的看电视）基本都用 iPad，装的是 YouTube 和 Spotify 的经典组合，一个看 Vlog，一个听播客。
What are your must-have items when hitting the road for work or going on an adventure? Does the answer change depending on the location, considering you have lived in different parts of the world?
你上班和户外冒险时的必备装备都是什么？因为你在世界各地居住过，在不同地方的装备是否也不一样？
With two kids and a lot of surfing I don’t have a lot of time for series and movies. However, when I fly I can catch up on lots of content. So I never use in-flight entertainment on an airline. My flight essentials are an iPad, fully loaded with shows, and my AirPods Pro 2.
我有两个孩子，又经常冲浪，所以没有太多时间追剧和看电影。但坐飞机的时候就能补看很多东西。所以我从来不看机载屏幕上的视频，飞行必需品是一台下好内容的 iPad 和 AirPods Pro 2。
The other must-have items depend very much on my destination, key is always the Mac for work and a surfboard when traveling for holidays.
其他装备就看去哪了，但关键装备始终是干活时用的 Mac 和度假时用的冲浪板。
I am currently traveling up the east coast of Australia and the roof of the car is holding multiple surfboards and the tech side is focused on an iPad for the kids long drives, iPhones for directions and bookings and a mac for quick work check-ins.
比如说，我目前正在澳大利亚东海岸旅行，就在车顶上放了好几个冲浪板，数码产品就是 iPad（在长途驾驶中稳住孩子们）、iPhone（导航和预定）和 Mac（快速处理点工作）。
As a designer, how do you stay informed and inspired?
作为一名设计师，你如何保持信息灵通，又从哪里获得灵感？
The short answer is a combination of both travel and digital research.
简而言之，我们获取灵感的来源是旅行观察和线上调研。
COVID was hard with travel restrictions. So we (the Bellroy design team) focused on internet experiences. Now we have travel open again. We've learned how to use it in a different way.
COVID 期间的出行限制造成很多困难，我们（Bellroy 设计团队）于是关注起在线办公体验。现在没有旅行限制了，我们则学会了如何换种方式利用出行机会。
In the last 18 months I’ve spent over 3 months in Europe, had multiple trips to our suppliers in Asia and have done inspiration trips to Singapore and Hong Kong. These trips have reminded me of the immense value in being a global citizen and that so much more can be done remote than you expect but that travel cannot be replaced with only digital means.
过去一年半中，我有三个多月是在欧洲度过的，还多次拜访了我们的亚洲供应商，在新加坡和香港寻找灵感。这些行程让我重新回想起做一名「全球居民」是多么有价值的事。远程可以做的事情超出想象，但唯有旅行，是线上冲浪永远也不能替代的。
How does your experience as a traveler and surfer influence your perspective on what a good carry product should be?
在旅行和冲浪方面的经验，是否对你看待包具产品的视角产生了潜移默化的影响？
For me, surfing is less about travel and more about making personal space. I find it important to have something that takes me into nature.
对我来说，冲浪与其说是出去玩，不如说是创造个人空间。我意识到拥有一些能让我融入大自然的东西很重要。
Travel is so much more influential. It is the only time that my grandparents will give me tips on how to pack and what to bring. It unifies all of us with the tension of having to carry all that you need for that time. That process combined with volume and weight restrictions makes everyone a Carryologist.
旅行对我的影响就更大了。只有在旅行的时候，我的祖父母会教我怎么打包、该带什么。家人之间关于带什么和不带什么会引起讨论，而这种讨论能使一家人更团结。这种受到体积和重量限制的打包过程的历练，能让每个人变成「打包专家」。
Among the designs you completed at Bellroy, which product, or specific design decision, are you particularly proud of?
在你所做的 Bellroy 设计中，你对哪个产品或具体设计决策感到特别自豪？
I think that our approach to product design makes it hard to choose a moment or specific individual piece. Our insights tend to have a broader application.
我们的设计方法使然，产品见解一般都有不限于单品的广泛应用，很难选出某个特定的高光时刻或作品。
One that stands out is our zip access with a slider at each end used on the Venture Slings, Lite Slings, Lite Duffel, Tokyo Workbag, Via Workbag and Via Workpack. This design asset was able to greatly enhance all of these styles with a new access technique.
例如一个比较突出的设计是我们的双侧拉链，在一系列产品上都能看到（具体说有 Venture Slings、Lite Slings、Lite Duffel、Tokyo Workbag、Via Workbag 和 Via Workpack）；它成为了一种设计资产，大大改进了各式产品的取物方式。
Often with our evolving design languages you’ll see elements that can transfer from style to style, this aids in giving a cohesive design style across our range.
很多时候，在我们不断发展设计语言的同时，会把一些元素从一种风格沿用到另一种风格上，这有助于在产品线之间维持有凝聚力的设计风格。
Could you share with us a high-level description of how each Bellroy product is conceptualized, assessed, designed, and manufactured, before finally hitting the shelf?
那能否从宏观角度分享一下，Bellroy 产品都是如何被提出、评估、设计、制造，直到最终上架的？
We use a team based approach that we developed called the point system. The system is based on regular check-ins with representatives from across the brand. This gives the whole brand opportunities to analyse, prepare and integrate new designs into our systems before they’re completed.
我们探索出一种称为「点状机制」的团队协作方法。这种机制的关键在于与来自全公司的负责人定期沟通。这样，整个团队就有机会在新设计定型之前进行分析、筹备，并使其融入品牌的设计体系。
What we strove to do is avoid surprises during product development, to measure engagement and allow for flexibility from concept to product.
避免产品开发过程中出现意外，量化成员的参与度，并允许在概念到产品的过程中灵活调整——这就是我们力求实现的目标。
How does Bellroy’s sustainability strategy impact your design mentality? Do you have to put in extra effort to ensure the products are eco-friendly from the design perspective? If yes, how?
Bellroy 主张可持续发展，这对你的设计理念有何影响？你是否需要额外努力才能实现产品的环保设计？
Our material selection prioritises conforming above the latest global standards. We focus on recycled origins and have hard rules in place about what we will never use. Most importantly the material must be capable of being able to do the job well and last.
我们优先选择符合最新的国际环保标准的材料，努力使用回收材料，对禁止使用的材料有严格的规定。对于材料，我们最看重的是必须能够优秀、持久地承担收纳任务。
For the product design and colouring it helps us stay away from trends and fads. We don’t want to be ‘of the moment’ and instead aim for something that sits outside of the mainstream. The benefit of making this conscious decision is to have products that are used and loved for as long as possible.
这种做法有助于我们远离产品设计和色彩搭配中的「潮流」和「风口」。我们不想做「弄潮儿」，更关注一些主流之外的东西。这是一个有意识的决策，有助于延长用户使用和接纳产品的周期。
Of course, we don’t want to be on the wrong side of fashion and have great products feel irrelevant. Our designs are not overly specific for a purpose. They’re applicable from day to night, from work to weekend and for most daily moments year round.
当然，这不是说要和时尚对立，我们也不想让用户对好的产品感到疏离，只是说我们不会刻意让设计迎合特定目的。这样，从早到晚、从工作日到休息日，我们的产品与日常的大多数时刻都是搭调的。
Is it an accurate interpretation that Bellroy generally targets the higher-end market or premium customers? What are the considerations or justifications behind the decision?
Bellroy 是不是瞄准高端市场和高端用户？你们品牌定位背后的考虑或理由是什么？
There is an old saying ‘quality only hurts once’. We are not extravagant in our pricing, we focus on a value proposition with our design. We ensure that we make our products out of high quality materials with innovative designs produced ethically.
俗话说「好货虽贵，痛在一时」（quality only hurts once）。我们并不追求定价「奢侈」，只是强调用设计凸显价值：确保真材实料、设计新颖、以负责任的方式生产。
What’s the most challenging part of your job as a product designer and design director? How do you overcome these challenges?
作为产品设计师和设计总监，你觉得工作中最具挑战的部分是什么？如何克服？
The challenge is in finding the essence of new designs. After we have set our definitions of what we are trying to do the design feels inevitable, like there are no other choices to be made, it is now about execution.
挑战在于找准新设计的本质。一旦为设计目标找到了「定义」，接下来的设计就是水到渠成的事情了，就好像那些选择注定该是如此一样，剩下的就是执行。
However, setting those parameters up is incredibly strenuous. Sometimes I can’t think of anything else or the idea feels like it is just out of reach. Fortunately working with such a great team means those painful moments have become shorter and our ability to execute has become so much stronger.
然而，这些「初始参数」的设定是极为艰难的。有时我也会头脑空白，好主意仿佛远在天边。幸运的是，我有一个优秀的团队，这意味着过难关的时间更短，执行能力也更强。